bright-coat-and-bravado:

In all seriousness, when it comes to such ultimately trivial issues as “taste in science-fiction programmes”, I find it’s far more distasteful (and distressingly authoritarian in its overtones) to treat [people-who-don’t-like-thing] as lacking in independent thought and agency than it is to merely be “unkind” and argue that they have bad taste in TV.

… and one last point, that I thought it worth separating out: I quibble on the description of this as “ultimately trivial issues”. If it were just people’s “taste in science-fiction programmes”, yeah, you’d be right. But I don’t see people going online and repeatedly spreading libel about professionals as “trivial”.

When people go around writing lengthy screeds about how someone is a misogynist and a racist who should be sacked from their job immediately, then that’s not “trivial”. That’s not “I don’t like this so I’m not watching it”, that’s taking an aggressive position on people’s jobs and livelihoods. And a lot of the time I don’t think the people who do it realise quite how serious it is.

bright-coat-and-bravado:

sebpatrick:

bright-coat-and-bravado:

sebpatrick:

And yes, I’m asking for trouble tagging that last post “moffat hate”, watch all the people now rushing to claim it’s definitely not true for them.

Maybe you’d be better off if you didn’t make sweeping statements wherein you posit that you, the Enlightened Sebpatrick, clearly know the minds of tons of people you’ve never met better than they know their own.

…said notably pigheaded and presumptive Tumblr user bright-coat-and-bravado, without a hint of irony.

Of course, it could be argued that making the crass generalisation that people are simply the unwitting victims of an involuntary, cultural-memory impulse that afflicts those who are Doctor Who fans is kinder than the alternative, which is to say that they’re just people with poor taste who don’t understand good television.

In all seriousness, when it comes to such ultimately trivial issues as “taste in science-fiction programmes”, I find it’s far more distasteful (and distressingly authoritarian in its overtones) to treat [people-who-don’t-like-thing] as lacking in independent thought and agency than it is to merely be “unkind” and argue that they have bad taste in TV.

We can agree to disagree on this, that’s fine, but we’re really just talking about a mostly flippant attempt to look at the relentless and often unfounded (because seriously, so much of what I see written about Moffat is based on working backwards from an argument and then twisting stuff to fit) hatred within the wider context of What Doctor Who Fans Are Like.

You might (indeed evidently do) think it’s “distasteful” or “authoritarian” to say “Yeah, but really, this is just what Who fans in general do and always have done”, but it doesn’t change the fact that there’s a reason why this:

How many Doctor Who fans does it take to change a lightbulb?
"CHANGE?!?!?!?!?!?"

.. is a widely-known, long-running joke within the fandom.

Honestly, if anything, I think contextualising the vast bulk of anti-Moffat reactionism as part of a much wider trend among the vast scope of fandom is actually something of a compliment, because it means that I’m not just going “RARG these people aren’t PROPER FANS these stupid newbies they’re just Tennant fangirls they don’t understand the show”, I’m actually going “Yeah, welcome to the club, we’re all like this.”

(It’s possibly also distasteful or authoritarian to claim any kind of right to say that about other fans, but I think discussing and analysing fan culture in and of itself is a perfectly valid practice. And that does, by its nature, involve making generalisations. Is it an insult to claim people are “lacking in independent thought and agency”? Possibly. But again, it’s undeniable that there is an element of mob culture in this kind of discussion, on all sides, and that does change how people express themselves. So to an extent, I think sometimes when people talk about this stuff they are getting swept up in something that isn’t just their own individual agency. And that’s not limited to STFU-Moffaters.)

If you want to disagree with me on that, that’s cool (and I do find it interesting that basically the only engagement that post got, apart from a couple of RARG responses including one that amusingly suggested I needed to “read more”, was from someone who I think would otherwise basically agree with me on the relative merits of Moffat’s writing). But it’s just an observation.

And frankly, when we’re talking about people who frequently infer non-existent intent on the part of a particular writer, I don’t think it’s especially unfair to flip it around and do the same to them.

emotianal:

chin up lil buddy

emotianal:

chin up lil buddy

(via herdivineshadow)

bright-coat-and-bravado:

sebpatrick:

And yes, I’m asking for trouble tagging that last post “moffat hate”, watch all the people now rushing to claim it’s definitely not true for them.

Maybe you’d be better off if you didn’t make sweeping statements wherein you posit that you, the Enlightened Sebpatrick, clearly know the minds of tons of people you’ve never met better than they know their own.

…said notably pigheaded and presumptive Tumblr user bright-coat-and-bravado, without a hint of irony.

Of course, it could be argued that making the crass generalisation that people are simply the unwitting victims of an involuntary, cultural-memory impulse that afflicts those who are Doctor Who fans is kinder than the alternative, which is to say that they’re just people with poor taste who don’t understand good television.

And yes, I’m asking for trouble tagging that last post “moffat hate”, watch all the people now rushing to claim it’s definitely not true for them.

I kind of have this theory about Tumblr and the “Moffat Hate”dom

This is what Doctor Who fandom does. What Doctor Who fandom has always done. And when I say “fandom”, I don’t mean “a small group of people on Tumblr” (as that’s how the word is generally used around here), I mean actual Who fandom, the stuff that has existed for decades and will continue to exist for many more decades and grow and change and evolve.

It’s an often-posited truism that Doctor Who fandom hates change, which is of course ironic given that the one immutable thing about Doctor Who is that it always changes, because if it didn’t always change it would have stopped existing about forty-nine years ago. This most commonly manifests itself in fans of the show absolutely hating the era that immediately follows the one during which they fell in love with the show (or, in some cases, one a few hops later on).

As longer-term Who fans, we’re most used to seeing this in the pattern of “Classic” fans who hate the “New” show. I know that this isn’t the case for everyone who doesn’t get on with the RTD-produced era, and there are plenty of valid criticisms to aim at it, but certainly in large numbers there are people who simply didn’t like 2005-onwards Doctor Who because it wasn’t the Doctor Who they knew and loved. It never would have stood a chance with them, because it was new and different - and also, because it was popular with a new audience, an audience that wasn’t them, that hadn’t fought through the fallow years and read all the New Adventures and watched sodding Downtime.

Those of us who’ve been fans since before the turn of the twenty-first century might find it hard to imagine the same “era-ism” making its way into newer fandom. Surely the new show hasn’t been running long enough to be divided in this way? But it has. It’s been almost ten years. That’s the same amount of time as from “An Unearthly Child” to “The Three Doctors”, and then again to “The Five Doctors”, and then again to, uh, “Dimensions in Time”.

So there are, genuinely, people out there who discovered Doctor Who during the RTD era, to whom that version of the show means everything (people, even, who were children when those episodes were broadcast who are now approaching adulthood), who have simply been unable to cope with the show undergoing major changes. And, worse, becoming much more popular than it was before (because many of these fans are, let’s face it, American, so between 2005 and 2009 this was still a precious and small cult thing, so they’re not used to it having a sudden explosion in popularity).

I’m sure some of them simply dislike Moffat’s writing for various reasons (although I doubt you’d have heard them making the same complaints during “The Empty Child” or “Blink” or “The Girl in the Fireplace”). But I genuinely believe that in a good number of cases, we’re just seeing the exact same effect that has always afflicted Who fans, from generation to generation, manifest in a new form.

On the bright side, many of these fans will probably come to appreciate the current era much more about a decade down the line and write retrospective articles on it pretending they always did.

dan-aykrxyd:

what a nice, original storyline moffat!!!! Well done, yet again!!!!!!!!!!

RUSTY D SAYS HI

GPOY.

wcjobber:

It’s always weird when two of my pop culture faves cross paths in a bizarre way. Such as seeing Lenny von Dohlen from Twin Peaks in an episode of Red Dwarf…wonder how that one happened.

Apparently he’s friends with Frances Barber (aka Madame Kovarian off of Who aka the genetic mutant in Polymorph) and she persuaded him to do it.

Easily one of the best RD guest performances, anyway.